Sian Maher and Stephanie English
David Cameron, otherwise known as the ‘real David Cameron’ (no, not the ex Prime Minister) is chair of the York Education Partnership, as well as being a key figure in the growth of education in Scotland. He had a major role in the development of Curriculum for Excellence, the Scottish answer to the educational challenges of the 21st Century. It is fair to say he is a highly successful man within the education sector of the United Kingdom. Cameron has an inimitable take on education, and has used his qualities as a very entertaining speaker to share these views with people.
Last week, the teachers in our school had the pleasure to listen to him talk about the makings of a great teacher, and how to provide for each student in our school, in order to give every student an equal opportunity in later life. It was an incredibly interesting and thought provoking address for us and teachers alike. After the meeting, we were given the opportunity to interview him, and the results were both fascinating and entertaining. We began by asking Cameron the question that everyone is likely to wonder when they meet him, ‘How does it feel to have such an infamous name?’, and his answer was very amusing:
“It’s hilarious” he states. Cameron continued to tell us the story of a close encounter between him and the other David: “I was working at the Low Wood Hotel at the Lake District and I was arriving by taxi, but there was a helicopter landing at the back of the hotel and my taxi driver said ‘That’s him!’. I asked him who he meant and he said ‘David Cameron!’ He was coming along to speak to the flood victims. So when I went to reception, the security men came in to make sure everything was safe and one of them saw a notice board that said the Low Wood Hotel welcomes Lancashire head teachers and David Cameron! The security guy said “nobody is supposed to know he is here! And when the receptionist said it was not him, the guard replied ‘what do you mean? It says David Cameron on the board’ …. To which the receptionist said “Yes…..but not THE David Cameron!’
We go on to discuss his life as a history and modern studies teacher before moving on to become a thriving education advisor. As we know, he has worked extensively in both Scotland and England, so we later ask him what he believes the differences are between education in Scotland and England, and of course which is better. His answer, obviously, was incredibly politically correct:
“Weirdly, there are huge differences between the two in terms of systems, but the good teachers and the good school leaders are the same in both Scotland and England. So the truth is, it is really all about people caring for young people, taking an interest in them, trying to give them a better sense of who they might become and trying to create structure and experiences for them.” However, he goes on to state that the system in England is much harsher, and inspection is much harder: “So there are lots of things about the system in England which are very different, you know the organisation of school is very different. In Scotland, we are, I think, much better and more equitable. What England is good at is making change, often in the wrong direction and in Scotland we tend to move in the right direction but we don’t tend to make changes very quickly.”
We went on to ask him who his favourite pupil was during his time as a teacher, which he appears to laugh at before once again giving a politically correct answer:
“Weirdly again, I have never really had favourite pupils. There are loads of pupils that stick out in my mind for all sorts of reasons. Loads of young people that I taught and I worked with who had to face horrible and challenging circumstances but still managed to make something of themselves. And I think if you can’t see good in everyone, you shouldn’t be a teacher – it’s not about having a favourite pupil, it’s making a favourite pupil…… But basically my favourite pupil was anybody that liked me.”
As young people, we felt it was important to voice our concerns about the competitive world we live in, a world we will continue to face in our working lives, hence we asked Cameron what advice he would give to young people facing the realities of this world:
“Try and get to know who you are. Think about what will work and what will fit for you. I think the more you can stretch out and reach beyond yourself the better.One of the things that made a massive difference for me was reading and I didn’t read a lot of books when I was very young but my English teacher got me to read and it was that classic thing where it took me into another world. I grew up in Campbeltown- it is pretty isolated and far away from anywhere, but through reading I became a citizen of the world. So I think it is about being prepared to be open, being prepared to try things and ultimately to believe in yourself. I didn’t do that enough. I think that would be the main advice I would give.”
The manner in which he speaks to us is incredibly confident and natural, and we are able to see his talent as an engaging speaker first hand, as we then asked him if he believes exam results are the most important measure of success:
“Yes, when push comes to shove I think it is. Everybody talks about your personal statement but if you don’t have the higher results, nobody is going to read it. So I think exam results are hugely important.” We went on to ask him if he agrees with this measure, to which he replied that he would have less of a problem if the exams were better:
“I know so many people who have Higher English and have never really read a book. But sometimes all an exam result tells you is that you pass an exam; sometimes you get people who have Higher Physics that will never be scientists because they don’t really have the curiosity. I think if we had better exams that were more informative about the students I would be more comfortable with them as a complete measure, but I do think we need to balance it up.”
Whilst researching, prior to our interview, we discovered that on David’s internet profile there were vast amounts of positive feedback regarding his hugely beneficial contribution to the education systems within Scotland and England. One comment stood out to us:
“Hello David, I walked into WestPoint this morning as a knackered, increasingly cynical teacher, dangerously close to losing my educational mojo. I left this afternoon re-energised and feeling as passionate about education as I did 35 years ago. Thank you.”
We were surprised, almost. In awe of how one person could have such an impact upon another individual and decided that we’d ask how it felt to ‘reignite a cynical teacher’s mojo’, to which he responded:
“It nearly made me cry. I talk a little about a thing called ‘Imposter Syndrome’ and I, myself, suffer from it. I mean, if I do something and a whole bunch of people say it was great and just a few people say it was rubbish then it’s the negative comments that I think and tend to worry about. Just to feel that somebody came in utterly fed up and listened to me and then left feeling inspired, is just totally amazing. As I said, I nearly cried. It actually made me feel ten feet tall.”
This statement had a great effect upon us both and allowed us to realise the true significance of David’s voice not only upon his audiences across the country but upon himself too. His humble and modest response gave us great depth into how rewarding David’s job must be.
We then went onto ask “who is easier to teach- children or adults?” He claimed that “they were both the same”. However, you aren’t fooling anybody David! We young people know that the adults are far more ‘bothersome’ shall we say? We’re just kidding, of course *wink wink*. David carried on to say: “You get cynical adults and you get cynical young people. However, I think young people seem to have more excuses.” To which we must agree, the old “my dog ate my homework” will forever be our last resort. He proceeded to say: “But for me, they’re pretty much the same. I mean, there are obviously things that you change and do differently but one of the things that people tended to point out, when I was teaching, was that I never talked down to anyone. I guess, to a certain extent that I try to use that same basis for everyone that I teach. I try to be me, regardless of who it is that I am working with.” For us as pupils, we found this a great opportunity to point out that, in fact, when a teacher’s lesson incorporates a sense of identity and personality it is often what makes the lesson far more interesting.
We proceeded to question David about Scotland’s Curriculum for Excellence, asking if he believed it to be effective and how he would define it, he responded: “It has not worked nearly as well as it should have. Curriculum for Excellence, I think, should have been a much more open curriculum which genuinely gave schools and teachers the space to offer experiences to young people that really met their needs. Schools, communities and young people are different and so I think it’s great that people have the opportunity to do that. I think, for a whole lot of reasons that we panicked a bit about CfE. We started to introduce more and more information which led to more and more restraints and so, in a sense it has become a much narrower thing than, I think, it was ever intended to be. We need to think about the four capacities that the Curriculum for Excellence takes into consideration (which are successful learners, confident individuals, responsible citizens and effective contributors) and actually help teachers to establish these four capacities. We need to give them that confidence in their own ability and get them to see what they are good at and where the traction is that they can build on by getting them engaged and involved. I think we could have done a bit more with the Curriculum for Excellence if we had been a bit more courageous.”
Being pupils, the Curriculum for Excellence is not something which we truly consider on a day-to-day basis, however little did we realise the huge extent to which it impacts our education. Little do we appreciate the great amounts of intricate detail that occurs behind the scenes. David’s comment upon CfE is one that made us reflect on the complexities of achieving the desired outcomes.
We continued on, asking him who his favourite teacher was when he was at school and why. He told us that it had to be ” a toss-up between Mr McWilliam ,my English teacher: who in lots of respects turned my life around as he taught me about the library and got me to write and ultimately changed my sense of who I was, and my History teacher. My History teacher taught me to understand that History was all about questions and not answers. They both had a huge impact upon me.”
Finally we asked him if he thought class sizes should be smaller and whether or not he believed a change in size would make a difference. He responded saying: “If I was giving you a truthful answer, I would say that I think we should stop obsessing over class sizes. I think we should consider activity sizes more than the size of a class. Sometimes you can teach sixty folk in a ‘1er’ (wunner). Now, yesterday, I worked with two hundred and eighty people and yet it was fine. It would ridiculous to claim that classes should consist of two hundred and eighty people, unless you live somewhere in the third world. It was fine because I could get them started as two hundred and eighty and then I put them into groups of no more than about ten or twelve- any bigger and this activity would have been ineffective. For you, class sizes vary as you go through the day and you will be in a range of different classes every day. I think we need to think more about activity sizes rather than worry about class sizes. You know, I could teach two hundred and eighty people but at the end of the day when I ask them all to write me an essay it’s going to prove to be fairly laborious. We often get stuck in very formal ways of thinking and actually what we really need to do is open our minds a little bit”
And with that statement, our interview came to an end. We thanked David for coming and speaking to us, to which he replied “eh by the way, it was you that came and spoke to me”, followed by great amounts of laughter. Again, we would like to thank David Cameron for taking the time out of his day for not only giving the teachers such a valuable ‘behind the scenes’ insight but for also for allowing us to interview him. It was greatly appreciated.
David later tweeted “Sympathy for the guys!! They got too many words, too much anecdote and more sharing than they needed.”, to which we reply- ‘we do love a bit of gossip’!
